Olivia Rodrigo’s second album, the follow-up to her 2021 breakthrough Bitter, is known as Guts.
Picture by Nick Walker/Courtesy of the artist/Illustration by Jackie Lay/NPR
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Picture by Nick Walker/Courtesy of the artist/Illustration by Jackie Lay/NPR
Olivia Rodrigo’s second album, the follow-up to her 2021 breakthrough Bitter, is known as Guts.
Picture by Nick Walker/Courtesy of the artist/Illustration by Jackie Lay/NPR
For any younger individual, the handful of years that compose the transition from teen to younger grownup are certain to be awkward and emotionally fraught, even when they’re a little bit thrilling too. For Olivia Rodrigo, these hole years have been stranger than most, after the explosive success of her first album, Bitter, turned an 18-year-old songwriter into far more: the youngest artist to ever debut on the prime of the Billboard Scorching 100, a three-time Grammy winner, billion-plus streaming sensation, Vogue cowl lady and the artist The New York Instances dubbed “pop’s brightest new hope.” All of which meant that her second album would, too, be greater than an album: No matter she delivered subsequent can be her response to the invention of her personal expertise, her relationship with success and, maybe above all, a brand-new sort of stress.
“I positively had a chip on my shoulder the entire time. I keep in mind for the primary few months of sitting down and attempting to write down the album, I had all of those intrusive ideas in my head: I might sit down on the piano and simply take into consideration what individuals would say, how individuals would criticize it,” Rodrigo says. “Perhaps midway via making the file, I sort of needed to shift my perspective into attempting to write down songs that I take pleasure in, attempting to write down songs that I want to hear on the radio — not attempting to beat what I did final time or please anybody. And that is kind of the place the true magic occurred.”
That album, Guts, arrived earlier this month, and is by any measure one other success, debuting as soon as once more at No. 1. NPR’s Ailsa Chang caught up with Rodrigo, now 20, to speak concerning the rising she’s executed up to now two and a half years, and the few uncommon silver linings to be present in caring what others assume. Hear the radio model on the audio hyperlink, and skim extra of their dialog under.
This interview has been edited for size and readability.
Ailsa Chang: Guts has been out for a little bit over two weeks now. What do you consider the response thus far, in spite of everything of this buildup? Has something concerning the suggestions shocked you, or taken you aback?
Olivia Rodrigo: It is all the time attention-grabbing to see which songs individuals gravitate in direction of. You recognize, you can also make predictions, and your file label can have a track that they assume goes to be a success, however you by no means actually know. Particularly in immediately’s pop panorama, I really feel like individuals are actually hungry for songs that sound totally different — songs that are not conventional hits, as you’d say.
Is there a selected track on Guts that you simply had been actually shocked audiences reacted so strongly to?
There’s this track known as “lacy“: It is kind of about this mysterious female determine, and there is a variety of envy concerned. I’ve seen so many ladies who’re like, “That is my older sister,” or “That is my ex-best buddy.” I noticed one thing the opposite day that was like, “I am envious of my previous. ‘lacy’ looks like my previous self.” It provides a lot coloration to those songs that I by no means might have considered. And that is why I feel it is actually vital to by no means specify who precisely a track is about — as a result of I simply love watching individuals have their very own interpretations of it. I might by no means need to take that away.
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I do marvel — and I am fascinated by myself, too, after I’m planning what to say on air — as you are writing music, are you ever pondering, “Perhaps I should not say that, as a result of individuals are going to take it the improper method on social media”? Do you begin fascinated by that as you are writing the phrases?
[Sighs] You recognize, I’ve such an enormous mouth, truthfully.
You are unfiltered like me.
Yeah. After I’m writing a track, I block every little thing out to the perfect of my skill, and simply attempt to describe the sensation as greatest as I probably can. It is not till just a few weeks earlier than I put out the file that I am like, “Huh — individuals are actually going to listen to all of this loopy stuff that I simply mentioned in my front room, at my piano.” The 2 weeks main as much as the album’s launch day, it was positively hitting me a little bit bit.
How fascinating — you hear your music otherwise nearer to the album launch?
Yeah. I imply, I feel it is most likely greatest as a artistic individual to maintain your artistic course of fairly insular and never take into consideration the way in which that it will react on the earth. That is sort of the antithesis of creativity to me; I feel it must be for you firstly, and that is how the perfect songs get made, in my expertise.
Nevertheless it’s a very totally different mindset being an artist that writes songs, and being an artist that places them out. Like now, I am in a distinct headspace than I used to be six months in the past, excavating all of those emotions and writing all these songs. I did not do interviews like this six months in the past. It is only a totally different a part of your mind getting labored.
How did you need Guts to be totally different from Bitter? Did you need individuals to listen to you evolving away from the lady they heard in your first album?
I wrote Bitter after I was 17, and I wrote most of Guts after I was 19 and 20, and people few years are most likely a few of the most formative in your life. I grew a lot simply as an individual, as a younger lady, coming into younger maturity. I feel that I am a little bit bit extra self-possessed and extra assured, and know what I need to say extra. I feel the file can be a little bit cheeky at instances, and that was a aspect of me that did not actually get showcased a ton on Bitter.
You come from this lengthy line of singers whose tales began with Disney: Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, Demi Lovato — and again additional, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera. Being a baby star did assist launch every of you. However have you ever discovered that that previous sort of limits you, too, as you are attempting to develop your personal distinctive voice as an artist?
That is a terrific query. I typically take into consideration that lineage, and I am very proud to be part of that group of ladies; I feel they’re unimaginable. I’ve all the time been very steadfast in my need to have full artistic management over my profession. And I feel there’s this notion, this archetype of a Disney lady, because the kind of pop star who perhaps sings different individuals’s songs, or one thing like that. That was all the time one thing that I resented rising up, as a result of writing songs is my old flame — it is my largest ardour in life. I simply all the time needed to have autonomy over what I mentioned and did. And I really feel actually, extremely lucky that I have been in a position to forge a path within the music trade that feels fully my very own. I write all my songs; I’ve a lot artistic say over what I do. It is not one thing that I take as a right.
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What about the truth that you do have some fairly younger followers? Is there a variety of stress to reside as much as some picture you cultivated years in the past, if you had been a youngster? Are you fascinated by easy methods to maintain these younger followers, however give voice to the issues that you’re dwelling via in your grownup life?
I take into consideration that rather a lot. I’ve actually gotten some side-eyes from involved dad and mom over the swear phrases in my songs. However I’ve grown up with so many extremely sturdy, gifted, inspiring function fashions, ladies songwriters that I’ve regarded as much as for a very long time. And after I look again, I feel they had been my heroes as a result of they had been precisely who they had been, and did not cherry-pick elements of themselves to current to the general public. I feel that the perfect function mannequin is essentially the most true model of themselves.
You do have a stupendous method with swear phrases, and one of many issues individuals actually do appear to entry in your music is the anger, the sharp edges to your character and your sound. Do you assume you write your greatest stuff if you’re in ache, if you’re indignant?
It is a loaded dialog; I’ve had this dialog with my therapist many instances. It is a unusual factor to be a songwriter, the place, you understand, I will be going via one thing exhausting, and I will be unhappy or heartbroken over one thing — and somebody can be like, “Properly, you may write a extremely good track.” Generally that feels sort of like …
Like, why do I’ve to reside this type of life to write down this type of music?
Yeah, and why does every little thing need to be monetized? However I’ve framed my pondering on this when it comes to private development: I truly assume that I write my greatest songs after I’m rising rather a lot personally. And sometimes you are rising rather a lot personally if you’re going via heartbreak; you are very introspective at instances like that.
How do you’re feeling about the truth that that a part of you, the half that’s indignant or hurting, is what’s reaching so many individuals?
I imply, I like music that’s dramatic and indignant and enraged. I grew up listening to music like that. After I performed reveals for the final tour, I might look out within the viewers and I would see all these younger ladies screaming these indignant songs, simply crying and feeling so many feelings that they may simply let loose at this live performance. That is not one thing that ladies are inspired to do on an on a regular basis foundation — or, you understand, individuals basically. That is a part of why I like music a lot. You’ll be able to discuss these emotions that are not so simply expressed in on a regular basis life.
It have to be a tremendous feeling to have a stadium of individuals repeating your phrases again to you. I am unable to think about anyone doing that with an NPR story.
You by no means know! However I take into consideration that on a regular basis — music touches individuals’s souls like nothing else. An creator could possibly be writing a guide for like 5 years, and write 400 pages, and somebody might learn the guide and never keep in mind a single line. However a songwriter might write a track in quarter-hour, and there is a stadium of people that know each phrase. Music is simply simply magical in that method.
You are reaching individuals not simply together with your lyrics, however together with your sound — and I am speaking about individuals of all ages, as a result of I hear influences in your music from artists who had been large earlier than you had been born: Alanis Morissette, Blink-182, Avril Lavigne, Inexperienced Day, Bikini Kill, ’80s new wave. How did you purchase that style in music? Are we listening to the stuff your dad and mom would play if you had been rising up in Southern California?
I give my dad and mom a variety of credit score for my music style. They’re big music lovers, and there was all the time music taking part in in the home; they beloved ’90s different rock. But in addition, my grandma obtained me a file participant for Christmas one 12 months — I used to be most likely 12 or 13 — and my mother and I might go to the thrift retailer and select information that we thought regarded attention-grabbing. That is how I fell in love with Carole King and Pat Benatar and Joni Mitchell, all of those feminine singer-songwriters that I simply thought had been the best and needed to emulate.
Talking of rising up in Southern California, are you continue to unhealthy at parallel parking?
Oh, this can be a nice query. We had been speaking about development — you understand, from 17 to twenty — and on my first album, I talked about how I used to be unhealthy at parallel parking. And truly, I feel I am OK now. It is my crowning, my highest achievement; I am so pleased with myself. I labored on it for some time.
